On Monday, former Fox News host and right-wing pundit Tucker Carlson released an interview with billionaire and X owner Elon Musk. At the 19-minute mark of the 108-minute-long interview, Carlson takes a break to talk about one of the show’s paid partners, the conservative think tank Heritage Foundation. Carlson then goes on to describe something that sounds suspiciously like Project 2025, the Foundation’s highly controversial road map for a second Donald Trump presidency.
The Heritage Foundation, Carlson says, “pulled together a coalition of over 100 right-leaning groups to develop a comprehensive plan for day one that would include detailed policy proposals on the most pressing issues,” and “has also developed a plan to dismantle the deep state that keeps this nonsense going and reclaim this nation from a small group of technocrats that’s broken everything.”
Though Carlson does not refer to Project 2025 by name, this language he used in the ad mirrors the text on the Project 2025 website, which says the plan “brought together by over 100 respected organizations from across the conservative movement, to take down the Deep State and return the government to the people.”
Carlson also referenced Project 2025’s personnel program, laid out by former Trump aide John McEntee, meant to ensure that a second administration is staffed with loyalists.
The Tucker Carlson Network did not respond to a request for comment about whether the ad was specifically for Project 2025. The Heritage Foundation did not respond to questions about whether the ad describes Project 2025 or another initiative.
Trump has made efforts to distance himself from Project 2025 after its unpopularity became evident. The Harris campaign has honed in on the extreme nature of Project 2025, highlighting it in multiple ads. After Trump disavowed Project 2025, Paul Dans, director of the Heritage Foundation, said it would be winding the project down.
At the time, Trump campaign spokespeople Chris LaCivita and Susie Wiles said, “Reports of Project 2025’s demise would be greatly welcomed and should serve as notice to anyone or any group trying to misrepresent their influence with President Trump and his campaign—it will not end well for you.”
Project 2025 would roll back legal protections for women, LGBTQ+ people, and racial minorities; curtail the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency’s efforts to counter mis- and disinformation; hobble the country’s ability to cut carbon emissions and address climate change; and even abolish the Federal Trade Commission.
The special sponsor link for Carlson’s show leads to a donation page that also does not specifically mention Project 2025 but does call for support to help “end illegal immigration.”
After leaving Fox News, Carlson founded the Tucker Carlson Network, which hosts his show online. Carlson has partnered with X to host his show, though X did not respond to questions about whether the interview with Musk was hosted on X or if the company was a part of putting it together.
In the interview, Musk said that he believes that a Kamala Harris administration would seek to shut down X and said he was “all in” on Trump. On October 5, Musk joined Trump on the campaign trail in Butler, Pennsylvania, where three months ago the former president was the target of an assassination attempt. Musk used his time on stage at the rally to encourage Trump supporters to “vote, vote, vote,” claiming that, should Trump lose, 2024 would be the last election in the United States. Musk repeated this claim during his interview with Carlson.
